Comments on: YEAH, TAPES ARE INFALLIBLE, RIGHT…

By: AndrewK

AndrewK — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 15:47:10 +0000

Although I do think a tape based workflow still currently has some advantages that tapeless doesn’t (such as being able to economically shelve and/or pass off camera masters), nothing is infallible. Not to long ago we had a problem w/a card from a rented EX 1 where none of the files were readable so we lost nearly an hours worth of footage. Thankfully it wasn’t a devastating loss, but it was from covering an event so that footage was irreplaceable.

Obviously this wasn’t your call Shane, but if something is that important why did they only shoot it w/one camera?

By: Jeff U'Ren

Jeff U'Ren — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 20:13:06 +0000

Never lock yourself into knowing one tool. Knowledge is power. I’m always learning.
Happy New Year
Jeff

By: shaneross

shaneross — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 06:28:42 +0000

Dan: “If this interview was SOOOOOO important, why was it shot on HDV?”

The entire show was shot on HDV. All of the shows they shoot are. Because the budgets we get we can’t afford to shoot Varicam, or P2. Heck, I’d be happy if they shot with the EX Cameras!

By: Shared Items on January 1, 2010

Shared Items on January 1, 2010 — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 21:00:26 +0000

[...] YEAH, TAPES ARE INFALLIBLE, RIGHT… from: Little Frog in High Def on 23 Dec 2009 [...]

By: Shared Items on December 30, 2009

Shared Items on December 30, 2009 — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 08:03:15 +0000

[...] YEAH, TAPES ARE INFALLIBLE, RIGHT… from: Little Frog in High Def on 23 Dec 2009 [...]

By: Jon Chappell

Jon Chappell — Sun, 27 Dec 2009 11:17:22 +0000

Shane – the tape formats you have had poor experiences with are not what would be considered high-quality tape formats. LTO tapes, for example, are designed to last around 30 years – when they test them they crush them, set fire to them, put them in the washing machine, etc.

But nothing is ever infallible and a good backup policy involves redundancy regardless of which format you use.

By: Brad wright

Brad wright — Sun, 27 Dec 2009 00:59:00 +0000

HDV drop out is horrible. I would always recommend a tapless option for recording hdv. Never let someone record an important interview only to tape.

By: Shared Items on December 27, 2009

Shared Items on December 27, 2009 — Sun, 27 Dec 2009 00:38:28 +0000

[...] YEAH, TAPES ARE INFALLIBLE, RIGHT… from: Little Frog in High Def on 23 Dec 2009 [...]

By: Bob Merrill

Bob Merrill — Sat, 26 Dec 2009 13:40:57 +0000

Been there! Merry Christmas Shane!
–Bob

By: Dan

Dan — Fri, 25 Dec 2009 01:46:39 +0000

No matter what you shoot on, you are bound to have problems with that format at some point in your career. Personally I still prefer tape from a cost stand point. It is far cheaper to shoot DVCProHD tape than DVCProHD P2, Once you dig’ in a tape, it becomes your backup. But with tapeless formats you need twice the storage. Drives may be cheap, but they aren’t so cheap that most indie productions or small production companies can afford to double their storage. Also, for docs where I do my own assisting, I like to log and dig’ the footage as a way to familiarize myself with it. I don’t really get the opportunity to do that with tapeless formats. “You can start editing with it right away!” Sure I could, but I would like to have the time to see what I’ve got before I start cutting…

So my question to you, Shane, is this… If this interview was SOOOOOO important, why was it shot on HDV? I hate to say it but this kind of shit happens more often when people are being cheap. Had it been shot with a better format (tape or tapeless), you wouldn’t be having this problem. That being said, I worked on an indie feature-doc that was shot on HDV and it turned out fantastic.

Oh and by the way Merry Xmas!

By: Jeffrey Di Lullo

Jeffrey Di Lullo — Thu, 24 Dec 2009 17:18:19 +0000

I feel your pain, man. Had the same thing happen to me. Footage was recorded on a camera with a faulty transport. Nothing would play the footage except for that camera. On the bright side, I was able to make a clone and move on. That camera has since been fixed so it too will no longer play the original tape. Tape in the trash.

I’ve also had DVcam and MiniDV tapes (the MQ stock)go completely unreadable after sitting in the archive drawer (properly stored and climate controlled) for a couple of years. In tape’s defense, I’ve never had DVCPRO stock go bad on me. Knock on wood.

Tape: its a love/hate relationship!

By: Bob Seabold

Bob Seabold — Thu, 24 Dec 2009 17:14:01 +0000

I certainly have had more tape problems than P2 problems in my career… One memorable job, we discovered bad and constant drop outs on a tape…further investigation revealed a dirty deck that was cleaned and seemed to function fine…then the dropouts returned. The funny thing was that in troubleshooting the problem, we used other decks which subsequently developed dropouts. It turned out to be a bad batch of (i think it was 3M tapes) tape and they would end up “infecting” the other decks. I suppose that could be argued as being human error in manufacturing.

I’ve had no P2 problems…I’ve had several issues with a firestore though but that ended up being a bad fw port.

Personally, I don’t see the difference of putting data on a tape via analog or digital or putting data on a drive. Orienting oxides on a flimsy tape or bits on a spinning magnetic platter…ultimately neither gives me 100% confidence.

By: Rob Imbs

Rob Imbs — Thu, 24 Dec 2009 16:12:58 +0000

I still think that tapes have a value over tapeless, because of the physical backup. I understand that tapes degrade or can be recorded over, but any responsible person would mark their tapes and set them to record inhibit.

In a practical sense, if you digitize from tape you’re going to have a digital file on your hard drive AND the original analog tape. But with tapeless, you copy your footage off of P2 or SxS and then you delete that card! You don’t have any physical piece of media anymore!

Personally, I’m going to backup my media onto multiple hard drives in multiple location regardless of what it was originally shot on. I think “tape people” may just be a tad bit more paranoid than the “tapeless people”? When it comes to my projects, I’m very paranoid. I actually still print my very important projects back out to tape.

thanks for the post, Happy Holidays Shane!

By: Shared Items on December 24, 2009

Shared Items on December 24, 2009 — Thu, 24 Dec 2009 07:57:15 +0000

[...] YEAH, TAPES ARE INFALLIBLE, RIGHT… from: Little Frog in High Def on 23 Dec 2009 [...]

By: WTL

WTL — Thu, 24 Dec 2009 04:25:54 +0000

No kidding. I can’t wait for tape to go away. I’ve been tapeless since 2005 – using a Firestore, and it’s funny when I see other video people get all strange about it. Nice thing; I can be copying footage to back up drives within seconds of finishing the shoot.