Comments on: THE EDIT BAY – 24P MONITORING MYTH http://lfhd.net/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/ Musings of an NLE ronin... Mon, 14 May 2012 16:07:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Shane Ross http://lfhd.net/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-1691 Shane Ross Sun, 16 Aug 2009 03:40:33 +0000 http://postfifthpictures.com/lfhd/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/#comment-1691 That's a fan...so make me "supermodel hot!" That's a fan…so make me "supermodel hot!"

]]> By: Tony http://lfhd.net/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-1688 Tony Sat, 15 Aug 2009 15:38:28 +0000 http://postfifthpictures.com/lfhd/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/#comment-1688 You have a very windy studio. You have a very windy studio.

]]> By: Shane Ross http://lfhd.net/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-1677 Shane Ross Fri, 07 Aug 2009 19:12:33 +0000 http://postfifthpictures.com/lfhd/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/#comment-1677 To confirm what Owen said, the FLICKER doesn't appear on the HD LCD (in the video the picture didn't show up because it was routed through a deck that was set for 29.97). So you CAN see true 24p monitoring on an HD LCD.<br /><br />But you don't NEED to. It is not necessary to see TRUE 24P. You gain nothing.<br /><br />I might have to make a follow up video showing this... To confirm what Owen said, the FLICKER doesn't appear on the HD LCD (in the video the picture didn't show up because it was routed through a deck that was set for 29.97). So you CAN see true 24p monitoring on an HD LCD.

But you don't NEED to. It is not necessary to see TRUE 24P. You gain nothing.

I might have to make a follow up video showing this…

]]> By: Shane Ross http://lfhd.net/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-1671 Shane Ross Thu, 06 Aug 2009 19:53:52 +0000 http://postfifthpictures.com/lfhd/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/#comment-1671 People go crazy for 24p because they don't know any better. They got into making video and film without any schooling, format training, apprenticeship or working in the industry at any entry level. They know that film plays at 24fps, so they want their "film" to be 24fps...or as they know it, 24p. And because they are stuck on NEEDING 24p (since all features are 24fps), then they think everything must be 24p, or if it doesn't do it, then something is wrong. They don't know any better, because they weren't taught the way things work in film and video. THey are self taught, and they have horrid teachers.<br /><br />As for 24p DVDs being "out..." quite the contrary. All of the hollywood features are on DVD at 24fps. The DVD players or the TVs convert that to 29.97...adding pulldown, properly. I have made more than a few 23.98 DVDs from HD sources. People go crazy for 24p because they don't know any better. They got into making video and film without any schooling, format training, apprenticeship or working in the industry at any entry level. They know that film plays at 24fps, so they want their "film" to be 24fps…or as they know it, 24p. And because they are stuck on NEEDING 24p (since all features are 24fps), then they think everything must be 24p, or if it doesn't do it, then something is wrong. They don't know any better, because they weren't taught the way things work in film and video. THey are self taught, and they have horrid teachers.

As for 24p DVDs being "out…" quite the contrary. All of the hollywood features are on DVD at 24fps. The DVD players or the TVs convert that to 29.97…adding pulldown, properly. I have made more than a few 23.98 DVDs from HD sources.

]]> By: Rob Grauert http://lfhd.net/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-1669 Rob Grauert Thu, 06 Aug 2009 13:29:29 +0000 http://postfifthpictures.com/lfhd/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/#comment-1669 nice. I finally got a chance to watch the podcast this morning. I never knew true 23.98 monitoring would flicker like that, the explanation makes sense though. <br /><br />But now I've gotta ask: Why do people go crazy for 24p? They think its the holy grail of video. They don't broadcast 24p. I read in the DVD Studio Pro manual that it only supports 24p for HD, so 24p on an SD DVD is out. Im guessing if you do author 24p to Blu-ray it will just add pull down for playback. It seems like it doesn't really work for anything other than transferring to film. So what's with all the hype. I personally have never been a fan. nice. I finally got a chance to watch the podcast this morning. I never knew true 23.98 monitoring would flicker like that, the explanation makes sense though.

But now I've gotta ask: Why do people go crazy for 24p? They think its the holy grail of video. They don't broadcast 24p. I read in the DVD Studio Pro manual that it only supports 24p for HD, so 24p on an SD DVD is out. Im guessing if you do author 24p to Blu-ray it will just add pull down for playback. It seems like it doesn't really work for anything other than transferring to film. So what's with all the hype. I personally have never been a fan.

]]> By: Owen http://lfhd.net/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-1668 Owen Wed, 05 Aug 2009 18:56:55 +0000 http://postfifthpictures.com/lfhd/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/#comment-1668 Now that I can watch the video, I think it's worth explaining why there's a flicker at 23.98 and PAL on the CRT. The reason there is a flicker is because the phosphors in the CRT are designed to refresh 60 times a second so that when you play NTSC video, you don't get any ghosting of old frames as the picture changes. When you drop the refresh rate, either to 50Hz (PAL) or 48Hz (23.98psf, which is actually "48i"), so much time is passing after a phosphor is refreshed that it starts to dim before the next cycle. So the flicker is a good sign -- it means the monitor can show a fast framerate without smearing pixels. <br /><br />So yes, there's a flicker because the monitor is designed for 60Hz... but that only applies to CRTs. LCDs never flicker, and if you have one that supports 23.98psf, you can get perfect 24p playback without flicker. (Most LCDs doing this are probably running at 72Hz and showing each frame three times.)<br /><br />But your conclusion is ultimately correct, having native 24p is not really a big deal.<br /><br />Glad to hear you're an Ubuntu fan - I wasn't sure based on the comical misspelling and all-caps :) Now that I can watch the video, I think it's worth explaining why there's a flicker at 23.98 and PAL on the CRT. The reason there is a flicker is because the phosphors in the CRT are designed to refresh 60 times a second so that when you play NTSC video, you don't get any ghosting of old frames as the picture changes. When you drop the refresh rate, either to 50Hz (PAL) or 48Hz (23.98psf, which is actually "48i"), so much time is passing after a phosphor is refreshed that it starts to dim before the next cycle. So the flicker is a good sign — it means the monitor can show a fast framerate without smearing pixels.

So yes, there's a flicker because the monitor is designed for 60Hz… but that only applies to CRTs. LCDs never flicker, and if you have one that supports 23.98psf, you can get perfect 24p playback without flicker. (Most LCDs doing this are probably running at 72Hz and showing each frame three times.)

But your conclusion is ultimately correct, having native 24p is not really a big deal.

Glad to hear you're an Ubuntu fan – I wasn't sure based on the comical misspelling and all-caps :)

]]> By: Shane Ross http://lfhd.net/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-1667 Shane Ross Wed, 05 Aug 2009 18:41:19 +0000 http://postfifthpictures.com/lfhd/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/#comment-1667 Yeah, it was a bad file that didn't play on ANY system...I mentioned that on the blog. Oh, but I only mentioned issues with iTunes.<br /><br />And the last time I asked an Apple engineer anything, I got an answer in less than 5 minutes. A FIX? Well...still waiting on that. Some dot.update maybe.<br /><br />And hey, I have an EeePC running Umbuntu...I like Linux. Yeah, it was a bad file that didn't play on ANY system…I mentioned that on the blog. Oh, but I only mentioned issues with iTunes.

And the last time I asked an Apple engineer anything, I got an answer in less than 5 minutes. A FIX? Well…still waiting on that. Some dot.update maybe.

And hey, I have an EeePC running Umbuntu…I like Linux.

]]> By: Owen http://lfhd.net/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-1666 Owen Wed, 05 Aug 2009 18:37:15 +0000 http://postfifthpictures.com/lfhd/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/#comment-1666 Now, now, don't turn on the hate. I, too, assumed linux was the problem and submitted your file to the linux gstreamer video guys as a file they should support. Inside an hour and a half (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=590852) they'd responded, concluding it was a malformed file (and confirmed that it didn't even play on a mac).<br /><br />The fixed file plays just fine, thanks.<br /><br />(I could also be snarky, and ask about the last time you got a technical response from an apple engineer in an hour and a half, but I'm way too mature for that :)) Now, now, don't turn on the hate. I, too, assumed linux was the problem and submitted your file to the linux gstreamer video guys as a file they should support. Inside an hour and a half (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=590852) they'd responded, concluding it was a malformed file (and confirmed that it didn't even play on a mac).

The fixed file plays just fine, thanks.

(I could also be snarky, and ask about the last time you got a technical response from an apple engineer in an hour and a half, but I'm way too mature for that :) )

]]> By: Shane Ross http://lfhd.net/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-1665 Shane Ross Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:57:30 +0000 http://postfifthpictures.com/lfhd/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/#comment-1665 Issue resolved.<br /><br />I'll make an MPG-4 for all the Über users out there who use Linux. UMBUNTU RULEZ! Although it likes to barf on video a lot. Issue resolved.

I'll make an MPG-4 for all the Über users out there who use Linux. UMBUNTU RULEZ! Although it likes to barf on video a lot.

]]> By: Owen http://lfhd.net/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-1664 Owen Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:21:45 +0000 http://postfifthpictures.com/lfhd/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/#comment-1664 Can you convert the video to something a little more universally playable, like mp4? All of my linux video players barf on the file. Can you convert the video to something a little more universally playable, like mp4? All of my linux video players barf on the file.

]]> By: kapoue http://lfhd.net/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-1663 kapoue Wed, 05 Aug 2009 12:53:29 +0000 http://postfifthpictures.com/lfhd/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/#comment-1663 Same problem with itunes with a macpro2008, BTW love your podcast and your blog Same problem with itunes with a macpro2008, BTW love your podcast and your blog

]]> By: Rob Grauert http://lfhd.net/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-1662 Rob Grauert Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:35:41 +0000 http://postfifthpictures.com/lfhd/2009/08/04/the-edit-bay-24p-monitoring-myth/#comment-1662 just a quick tip:<br /><br />I was leaving for work this morning and hoped I could watch the podcast before i had to leave. it seemed as if the video had to load fully before playing (this is a video, right? itunes says it is), and I didn't get a chance to watch yet.<br /><br />When exporting your Quicktime, if you set the streaming option to "Fast Start" it will start playing right away and load as it plays. <br /><br />Not sure if you already did that and my internet is slow or what, but if you haven't, then there's a nice tip for ya. just a quick tip:

I was leaving for work this morning and hoped I could watch the podcast before i had to leave. it seemed as if the video had to load fully before playing (this is a video, right? itunes says it is), and I didn't get a chance to watch yet.

When exporting your Quicktime, if you set the streaming option to "Fast Start" it will start playing right away and load as it plays.

Not sure if you already did that and my internet is slow or what, but if you haven't, then there's a nice tip for ya.

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